RANDY KRAFT LEGAL DOCUMENTS 1 - Provided By Randy Kraft
SUPERIOR COURT OF
THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
FOR THE COUNTY OF ORANGE
DEPARTMENT
HON. DONALD A. MC
CARTIN, JUDGE PRESIDING
)
THE PEOPLE OF THE
)
STATE OF CALIFORNIA
)
)
PLAINTIFF, )
)
) NO. C-52776
VS.
)
)
RANDY STEVEN KRAFT
)
0
DEFENDANT, )
____________________________________)
REPORTER’S TRANSCRIPT
JULY 18, 1989
APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
FOR THE PEOPLE:
CECIL HICKS,DISTRICT
BY: BRYAN BROWN
FOR THE DEFENDANT:
C. THOMAS MC DONALD
ATTORNEY AT LAW
SANDRA J. WINGRED,
JODI HALE, CSR 3188
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
S. WINGERD, CSR 6447
SANTA ANA, CALIFORNIA -- TUESDAY, JULY 18, 1989
MORNING SESSION
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS HAD IN OPEN COURT
IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: GOOD MORNING, LADIES
AND GENTLEMEN,
COUNSEL. YOU MAY PROCEED, MR. MC DONALD.
MR. MC DONALD: THANK
YOU, YOUR HONOR. WE’D CALL
CAROL B____.
THE CLERK: PLEASE
STAND RIGHT THERE, RAISE YOUR
RIGHT HAND.
CAROL B____.,
CALLED AS A WITNESS ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENSE,
HAVING BEEN FIRST DULY SWORN, WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED
AS FOLLOWS:
THE CLERK: PLEASE STATE
YOUR NAME AND SPELL IT FOR
ME.
THE WITNESS: CAROL B____, C-A-R-O-L,
B____.
THE CLERK: THANK YOU. PLEASE TAKE THE WITNESS
STAND.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. MC DONALD: Q. CAROL,
COULD YOU PULL THAT
MICROPHONE JUST A LITTLE CLOSER TO YOU, MAKE SURE WE HEAR
WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.
YOU’VE TESTIFIED ONCE BEFORE IN THIS MATTER?
A. YES.
S. WINGERD, CSR 6467
Q. ABOUT SPECIFIC DATES THAT RANDY WORKED?
A. YES, I HAVE.
Q. NOW, DURING THE INTERIM YOU’VE LEARNED THAT
RANDY’S BEEN CONVICTED OF A NUMBER OF SERIOUS CAHRGES,
HOMICIDES?
A. YES, I HAVE.
Q. YOU HAVE READ THE PAPER AND YOU HAVE HEARD
ABOUT THAT?
A. YES, I DID.
Q. JUST SO YOU KNOW WHAT-- WHY WE’VE ASKED TO
YOU COME BACK, THIS JURY IS GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE A
DECISION AT THE END OF THE PRESENTATION ON WHETHER OR NOT
TO KILL RANDY OR TO GIVE HIM LIFE IMPRISONMENT WITHOUT
POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE. DO YOU UNDERSTANT THAT?
A. YES, I DO.
MR. BROWN: JUDGE, I OBJECT.
MR. MC DONALD: I’D LIKE TO APPROACH THE BENCH.
THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU MAY CONTINUE.
MR. BROWN: I WOULD ASK THE COURT--
MR. MC DONALD: I’D LIKE TO APPROACH THE BENCH.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. BROWN: I WILL GO TO THE BENCH WITH YOU IF YOU
CAN TALK HIM INTO IT.
MR. MC DONALD: THIS IS EXACTLY THE REASON
I DON’T
WANT A COLLOQUY GOING ON.
THE COURT: LET’S GO. MISS REPORTER.
S. WINGERD, CSR 6467
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HAD AT THE
BENCH:)
THE COURT: YOU WANT TO
READ BACK THE LAST
QUESTION, PLEASE.
(WHEREUPON THE RECORD IS READ BY THE REPORTER.)
THE COURT: YOUR OBJECTION.
MR. BROWN: MY OBJECTION
IS THAT THAT STATEMENT
ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE, AND IT’S A PREJUDICIAL TYPE
STATEMENT AND IT’S NOT A QUESTION. THE JURY DOESN’T KILL
THE DEFENDANT. THEY RETURN A VERDICT AS TO WHETHER OR NOT
HE SHOULD RECEIVE THE DEATH PENALTY OR LIFE IMPRISONMENT
WITHOUT POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE.
THE COURT: WE WILL PHRASE WHETHER
IT WILL BE THE
JURY’S DECISION ON WHAT VERDICT TO RETURN. LET’S PUT IT
IN THAT-- IS THAT ACCEPTABLE TO YOU, MR. MC DONALD?
MR. MC DONALD: NO, IT’S SUGAR
COATING IT.
THE COURT: WELL, I HAVEN’T, AS
I SAID, RUN INTO
THIS PARTICULAR PROBLEM.
MR. BROWN: I WOULD REQUEST THE
JUDGE ORDER MR. MC
DONALD NOT TO REFER TO IT IN THAT WAY, I.E., THE JURY IS
GOING TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY ARE GOING TO KILL THE
DEFENDANT. THAT’S INAPPROPRIATE.
THE COURT: WELL, IT’S UP TO THE JURY
TO MAKE A
DECISION WHAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE VERDICT, EITHER LIFE
WITHOUT POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE OR IMPOSE THE DEATH PENALTY.
I THINK PHRASING IT IN THAT LANGUAGE IS FAIR, AND I WILL
S. WINGERD, CSR 6467
PAGE 25852
ASK MR. MC DONALD TO PUT IT, COUCH IT IN THOSE PARTICULAR
TERMS. THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN.
( THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HAD IN OPEN
COURT. IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: I WILL OVERRULE
IT. THAT RULING WILL
REMAIN AS FAR AS THIS WITNESS IS CONCERNED. YOU MAY
CONTINUE.
BY MR. MC DONALD: Q.
SO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THE
JURY WILL HAVE TO DECIDE AT THE END OF THIS CASE, CAROL?
A. YES, I DO.
Q. WE HAVE ASKED YOU TO COME IN TODAY AND SHARE
YOUR VIEWS ON RANDY WITH REGARD TO WHO HE IS AS FAR AS A
HUMAN BEING. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?
A. YES.
Q. NOW, YOU’VE HAD A NUMBER OF CONTACTS WITH
RANDY OFFER THE YEARS; IS THAT CORRECT?
A. YES.
Q. CAN YOU TELL US WHEN YOU FIRST HAD-- MADE
THE ACQUAIINTANCE OF RANDY?
A. WELL, HE CAME IN AS COMPUTER ANALYST, AND AT
FIRST I WAS NOT TO WORK ON THE COMPUTER. AND SHORTLY
AFTER THAT I BELIEVE HE MADE A TWO-WEEK VACATION TO
MEXICO. AND DURING THAT TIME, SINCE NONE OF THE FIVE OF
US WHO OPERATED THE COMPUTER OR THE FOUR OF THEM AT THAT
TIME KNEW TOO MUCH ABOUT IT, ONE OF THE GIRLS BLEW IT AND
LOST THE WHOLE ACCOUNTS RECEIVABLE. SO WHEN HE CAME BACK,
S. WINGERD, CSR 6467
WE HAD TO RESCONSTRUCT THE ACCOUNTS RECEIVABLE.
AND AT THAT TIME I WAS TAKEN IN TO WORK
DIRECTLY WITH HIM; AND FROM THAT TIME ON, RANDY INSTRUCTED
ME IN THE PROCEDURES THAT I COULD USE AND THE HELP THAT HE
GAVE ME--EXCUSE ME.
Q. ARE YOU NERVOUS?
A. YES.
Q. JUST RELAX. NO ONE HERE WANTS YOU TO FEEL
UNCOMFORTABLE. YOU ARE TALKING TO THE JURY, YOU ARE
TALKING TO US. JUST RELAX. YOU ARE JUST SHARING WHAT
OBSERVATIONS YOU MADE. OKAY? GO AHEAD.
A. SO HE WAS THE ONE WHO BASICALLY TRAINED ME.
I WAS TRAINED BY I.B.M WHO I CONSIDER A FINE COMPUTER,
BUT NOT THEIR INSTRUCTORS TOO MUCH.
Q. OKAY.
A. AND IT WAS THROUGH RANDY THAT I LEARNED TO
DO THE THINGS THAT I COULD DO ON THE COMPUTER. AND WHEN I
WAS HERE BEFORE, I GAVE A TOTAL OF THE HOURS THAT I WORKED
WITH HIM--
Q. THERE WERE LOTS OF THEM, WEREN’T THERE?
A. -- AT THE COMPANY. BUT IT DOESN’T
INCLUDE
THE TELEPHONE CALLS.
Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?
A. RANDY, IF I GOT INTO A PROBLEM, IF I DID IT
OR ANOTHER GIRL HIT THE WRONG BUTTON, WE COULDN’T GO
FORWARD OR BACKWARD, EITHER. SO HE WOULD COME IN-- I
S. WINGERD, CSR 6467
WOULD CALL HIM ON THE PHONE, AND HE COULD TALK TO ME-- HE
COULD ASK ME WHAT THE COMPUTER SAID ON THE SCREEN, AND I
WOULD TELL HIM. AND HE COULD TELL ME WHAT TO TELL THE
COMPUTER THROUGH THE KEYBOARD, AND THEN THROUGH THIS--
THERE WAS SOMETIMES TWO AND THREE-HOUR CALLS WHERE HE
COULD RECONSTRUCT WITHOUT EVER BEING IN THE OFFICE. AND
THAT WAS NOT INCLUDED IN MY TESTIMONY LAST TIME.
Q. OKAY. NOW WAS HE ON THE OTHER END OF THE
PHONE WHEN YOU ARE CALLING HIM ASKING HIM TO SOLVE
PROBLEMS FOR YOU?
A. VERY, VERY PATIENT. LIKE HE WASN’T TALKING
TO A SENIOR CITIZEN. HE WAS VERY CALM AND COLLECTED, AND
I WASN’T. AND HE WOULD QUIET ME DOWN AND GET ME THROUGH
THESE DIFFICULT PERIODS.
Q. OKAY. NOW, IN ADDITION TO THESE TELEPHONE
ESSENTIALLY TALKING YOU THROUGH THE PROCESS, YOU WORKED
WITH HIM DAY TO DAY, TOO?
A. YES.
Q. FOR A GIVEN PERIOD OF TIME.
A. YES.
Q. WHAT YEAR WAS THAT AGAIN DID YOU FIRST
START, APPROXIMATELY?
A. I DON’T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHEN HE CAME IN.
HE HAD BEEN WORKING THERE MAYBE SIX MONTHS, BUT I THINK IT
WAS IN-- I AM NOT GOOD AT DATES.
Q. JUST APPROXIMATELY.
S, WINGERD, CSR 6467
A. SEVENTY-- MAYBE ’68, EVEN.
Q. AND THEN YOU’VE HAD--
A. NO, IT WAS AFTER-- IT WAS IN THE ‘70’S.
Q. EARLY ‘70’S?
A. YES.
Q. NOW, IN ADDITION TO WORK CONTACT AND THE
RELATIONSHIP YOU HAVE HAD WITH RANDY,HAVE YOU HAD ANY OTHER CONTACT WITH
HIM?
A. OH, YES. I’VE BEEN TO HIS HOME.
MY
DAUGHTER MADE SOME LEAD GLASS WINDOWS FOR HIS KITCHEN
CABINETS. IT WAS A VERY NICE HOME. IT WAS VERY NICE
PLACE. EVERYTHING WAS VERY FRIENDLY.
Q. HAS HE BEEN TO YOUR HOME?
A. YES, YES. I HAD HIM OVER. YES,
I HAD HIM
OVER FOR DINNER.
Q. DINNER?
A. DINNER, YES.
Q. ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION?
A. I THINK TWO. AND--
Q. DID YOU LEARN ANYTHING ABOUT RANDY’S EATING
HABITS--
A. YES, HE’S A VEGETARIAN.
Q. SO YOU HAD TO PREPARE SPECIAL DISHES FOR
HIM?
A. DIDN’T KNOW WHAT TO DO. ALREADY HAD DINNER
READY. SO WE PUNTED,YOU KNOW.THERE WAS ENOUGH THAT HE
S. WINGERD, CSR 6467
COULD EAT AND MAINTAIN-- BUT--IT WAS CERTAINLY A MEAT
DINNER. IT WAS SPAGHETTI.
Q. WHAT ABOUT VACATIONS? HAVE YOU EVER
TRAVELED WITH RANDY?
A. YES, YES.
Q. WHY DON’T YOU TELL THE JURY ABOUT YOUR
TRAVELS WITH--
A. WELL, WE WENT TO COLOMA.
WE LEFT FROM SAN
FERNANDO VALLEY THAT’S OUTSIDE OF SACRAMENTO. THEY HAVE
WHITE WATER RIVER RAFTING. WE WENT DOWN THE AMERICA
RIVER, AND THERE WERE ABOUT 80 PEOPLE ON THE TRIP.
THERE WERE FIVE OF US THAT WERE TOGETHER.
MY GRANDDAUGHTER, A FRIEND DOTTY, JEFF, AND RANDY AND
MYSELF. AND WE HAD A DELIGHTFUL TRIP. AND I-- FELT LIKE
A PROUD MOTHER. HE WAS VERY WELL ACCEPTED BY THE REST OF
THE GROUP. I HAD GONE MANY TIMES BEFORE. BUT HE WAS VERY
WELL ACCEPTED, AND WE HAD A MARVELOUS TIME.
AND HE WAS VERY-- DOTTY AND I WERE BOTH
ELDERLY-TYPE WOMEN, AND HE WAS VERY KIND AND CONSIDERATE
AND HELPFUL THROUGH THE WHOLE-- AND WATER RAFTING IS--
GETTING INTO A RAFT IS A LITTLE DIFFICLUT IF YOUR LEGS ARE
SHORT, AND IT WAS NICE. IT WAS VERY PLEAANT. THE WHOLE
THING WAS VERY, VERY NICE.
Q. SO HE DIDN’T IGNORE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAPPEN
TO BE A SENIOR CITIZEN?
A. OH, NO, NO. THAT’S-- YOU KNOW. I WORK
S, WINGERD, CSR 6467
WITH PEOPLE THAT ALWAYS PUT ME OFF KIND OF IN A CORNER
LIKE.
Q. LIKE BECAUSE YOU’VE REACHED A CERTAIN AGE?
A. RIGHT. I WAS OVER THE HILL, YES. I NEVER
HAD THAT SORT OF THING. THAT KIND OF TREATMENT FROM HIM
EVER. IT WAS ALWAYS-- I FELT HIS EQUAL. IT WAS--
IT
WAS NICE. HE WAS VERY KIND, CONSIDERATE, VERY PATIENT AND
A VERY GOOD TEACHER, I FELT, BECAUSE I DIDN’T FEEL
INCOMPETENT AT ANY TME, AND I KNOW THAT I WAS-- NOW.
BUT HE NEVER GAVE ME THAT FEELING AT ANY TIME. HE WAS
VERY NICE.
Q. ONE OF THE-- AS I SAY, AT THE END OF THIS
HEARING, THE JURY IS GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE A DETERMINTATION
ON WHETHER OR NOT TO IMPOSE LIFE WITHOUT POSSIBILITY OF
PAROLE OR THE DEATH PENALTY. I SAY KILLING RANDY. BUT
SUGAR COATING IT, SOME PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO SAY--
HEAR THE DEATH PENALTY.
ONE OF THE OPTIONS IS LIFE
WITHOUT
POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF RANDY? HOW
DO YOU THINK HE MIGHT MAKE A CONTRIBUTION FROM WITHIN THE
INSTITUTION AS A TEACHER, FOR INSTANCE?
A. IF THEY WERE TO DEATH PENALTY, THEY WOULD
LOSE A VERY BRILLIANT MIND. A VERY KIND AND A VERY GOOD
TEACHER. I HAVE OFTEN WONDERED WHY THE PRISON DID NOT USE
HIS CAPABILITIES AT ANY TIME, BECAUSE I’VE CERTAINLY
WORKED UNDER MANY, MANY COMPUTER INSTRUCTORS, AND I
S. WINGERD, CSR 6467
COULDN’T -- I COULDN’T ASK FOR A BETTER TEACHER. IT WAS
MARVELOUS.
AND THE FACT THAT THE MAN COULD HELP ME JUST
OVER THE TELEPHONE AND NOT BE THERE AT ALL AND HAVE THE
ABILITY TO TELL ME AND TO RELAY MY MESSAGE AS I RELAYED TO
HIM AND TO BE ABLE TO GET ME BACK INTO AN OPERATING
PROCEDURE ON A COMPUTER WHEN I DON’T KNOW SOMETIMES ONE
BUTTON FROM THE OTHER AND CERTAINLY NOT THE LANGUAGE THAT
THE COMPUTER SPEAKS, AND FOR HIM TO BE ABLE TO RELATE AND
BRING BE BACK INTO AN OPERATING POSITION, KIND OF LIKE WAS
MARVELOUS, YES.
I CAN’T-- I CAN’T THINK OF ANYTHING OR ANY
SITUATION WHERE I COULD HAVE BEEN DEALT BETTER WITH AND
BEEN ABLE TO OPERATE IN THE FASHION THAT I DID WITHOUT HIS
ASSISTANCE. MY GOD, I COULDN’T HAVE DONE IT.
Q. DID YOU EVER SEE HIM VIOLENT OR ANGRY OR
AGITATED AT YOU?
A. WELL, OF COURSE HE GOT PROVOKED WITH US. HE
HAD NON COMS. WE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WE WERE DOING. HE
WOULD SPECIFICALLY WRITE DOWN DIRECTIONS, AND WE’D PUSH
WRONG BUTTONS ANYHOW. CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT THE MAN
WOULDN’T GET EXASPERATED?
BUT HE NEVER PUT US DOWN FOR THAT. HE
NEVER-- I WAS GOING TO SAY SCOLDED. I DIDN’T EXACTLY
MEAN THAT. HE NEVER CRITICIZED US FOR OUR BLUNDERS.
I THINK ONE TIME HE SAID TO ME “WHAT DID YOU
S. WINGERD, CSR 6467
DO THAT FOR?” IN ABOUT THAT TONE OF VOICE. THAT’S ABOUT
THE WORST IT REALLY GOT WITH ME. HE CERTAINLY HAD REASON
TO UPBRAID ME FOR ANY NUMBER OF TIMES, BECAUSE I COULD SIT
THERE AND PUSH THE WRONG BUTTONS.
NO, I NEVER SAW HIM IN ANYTHING BUT A VERY
FINE PERSON. AT ANY TIME. NO, I NEVER SAW HIM REALLY--
PROVOKED, BUT NOT EXASPERATED. NOT TO THAT STAGE.
Q. OKAY. NOW, YOU UNDERSTAND THESE PEOPLE
HERE
ARE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION AT THE END OR AT
LEAST NOT HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION, BUT AT LEAST THEY WILL
BE CONSIDERING THIS DECISION AT THE END OF THIS HEARING.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK TO THEM ALL AND TELL THEM YOUR
FEELINGS ABOUT RANDY AND WHY LIFE WITHOUT POSSIBLY OF
PAROLE IS THE DECISION THEY SHOULD RENDER?
A. WELL, I COULD PROBABLY SIT AND TALK TO YOU
FOR HOURS, AND IT WOULD SOUND LIKE I WAS-- YOU KNOW-- I
CAN’T DO ANYTHING BUT TELL YOU THAT HE WAS A MARVELOUS
PERSON TO WORK WITH.
I’VE NOT WORKED-- AND I HAVE WORKED FOR
45-- MAYBE LONGER, OKAY? AND I’VE WORKED A LONG TIME AND
I HAVE NEVER, EVER, BEEN SO INSTRUCTED AND SO NICELY
TREATED AND NOT-- I CAN’T THINK OF THE WORD-- NOT BE PUT
DOWN CONSTANTLY BY SOMEBODY OR UPBRAIDED TERRIBLY FOR
MISTAKES THAT WE ALL MAKE. EVERYBODY MAKES MISTAKES. I
MADE THEM, AND HE WOULD SIMPLY TRY TO HELP ME OUT OF
DIFFICULT SITUATIONS.
S. WINGERD, CSR 6467
AND I AM SURE HE UNDERSTOOD
THAT I WAS IN A
VERY STRESSFUL POSITION AND I HAD PEOPLE ON ME ALL THE
TIME REGARDING THE COMPUTER FOR MANY, MANY DIFFERENT KINDS
OF REPORTS.
AND I CAN TELL YOU
TRUTHFULLY THAT HAD I NOT
BEEN THERE WITH RANDY, I WOULD NEVER HAVE SURVIVED THE
NUMBER OF YEARS THAT I DID AT THAT COMPANY OR-- IT WAS AS
PLEASANT TO BE AROUND HIM AS IT HAS BEEN AND WAS. AND I
CAN ONLY HOPE THAT MAYBE SOME OF WHAT I FEEL HAS COME
ACROSS TO YOU GUYS. I HOPE.
THAT’S ALL.
Q. OKAY. WHEN RANDY WOULD COME TO WORK, DID HE
BRING MATERIALS WITH HIM?
A. YES, YES, HE-- WELL, HE HAD-- HE WOULD
COME IN WITH PART OF IT WAS ART WORK THAT HE CARRIED
AROUND IN SOMETHING.
Q. AND PART OF IT WAS BUSINESS WORK RELATED--
A. OTHER, YES OF COURSE. BECAUSE DON’T FORGET
THAT HE WAS CONSULTING WITH TWO OR THREE DIFFERENT FIRMS.
AND IF THEY CALLED HIM AND HE WAS AT OUR PLACE, OR IF I
CALLED HIM AND HE WAS AT THEIR PLACE, HE HAD TO HAVE SOME
KIND OF REFERENCE, I WOULD THINK. DID HAVE.
Q. CAROL, WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE INTERIOR OF
WHAT’S BEEN MARKED AS EVIDENCE ITEM 38, IS THIS THE TYPE
OF MATERIAL RANDY WOULD BRING INTO WORK-- TYPE OF BINDER?
A. YEAH, I RECOGNIZE REALLY THE YELLOW LEGAL
S. WINGERD, CSR 6467
SHEETS.
Q. WHAT ABOUT THIS TYPE OF PORTFOLIO HOLDER?
A. I WOULD SUPPOSE-- I REALLY DON’T-- I KNOW
HE BROUGHT WORK WITH HIM, BUT FOR ACTUALLY IDENTIFYING,
NO, I COULN’T DO THAT.
Q. DID YOUR DAUGHTER KNOW RANDY?
A. YES. MY GRANDDAUGHTER TOO.
Q. HOW OLD IS YOUR GRANDDAUGHTER?
A. TWENTY. WELL, SHE WAS 20 THEN. THAT
WAS-- WE WENT ON THE RAFTING TRIP I GUESS IN ’72. SO I
HAVE NOWN RANDY LONGER THAN ‘70’S, HUH? YEAH.
Q. OF COURSE RANDY KNEW EVERYBODY AT YOUR WORK?
A. YES, YES.
Q. DO YOU KNOW, HAVE YOU HEARD OF ANYONE THAT
HAD MADE AN OBSERVATION OF RANDY BEING VIOLENT OR
DISCOURTEOUS OR UNCARING TO ANOTHER HUMAN BEING?
A. OH, NO. IN MOST-- AND I CAN SAY THIS--
MOSTLY THE PEOPLE THAT I WORK WITH AND THAT HE WAS WORKING
WITH STILL FEEL LIKE I DO, YEAH.
Q. THEY HAVE FONDNESS FOR HIM?
A. YES, YES. HE WAS VERY NICE. I NEVER SAW--
I NEVER HEARD A DEROGATORY REMARK ABOUT HIM FROM ANY OF
THE MEN OR WOMEN THAT HE WORKED WITH CLOSELY OR EVEN
PARTIALLY. NO, I NEVER HEARD ANYTHING.
AND AT THAT VERY END, RANDY
WAS TO BE-- HE
WAS CONSULTING ON A PURCHASE OF THE NEW MACHINE WHICH WAS
S. WINGERD, CSR 6467
BIGGER THAN THE ONE WE WERE USING, AND WE HAD TO GO TO A
LARGER MACHINE. AND WE WENT ON SEVERAL OF THE TRIPS.
I REMEMBER PARTICULARLY ONE TO SANTA BARBARA
WHERE HE WENT WITH MOST OF THE OFFICIALS-- V.I.P.’S OF
OUR COMPANY, OFFICERS, AND COMPUTER RELATED WORKING
PARTNERS THAT WENT TO SANTA BARBARA FOR A STUDY OF A
MACHINE THEY HAD UP THERE. I DON’T KNOW WHICH ONE. WE
FINALLY WENT FROM THE 32 TO THE 36. AND HE WAS AN ACTIVE
PART OF THAT.
Q. OKAY. THE POINT IS YOU HAVE HAD CONTACT
WITH DOZENS AND DOZENS OF EMPLOYEES, YOUR OWN FAMILY,
FRIENDS, MANY OF WHICH HAVE KNOWN RANDY OVER THE YEARS AND
YOU HAVE HEARD UNIFORMLY A FONDNESS FOR RANDY.
A. YES, YES. I HAVE NEVER HEARD ANYTHING
SPOKEN OF HIM THAT WAS IN THE LEAST DEROGATORY. NEVER
HAVE.
MR. MC DONALD: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: MR. BROWN, ANY QUESTIONS?
MR. BROWN: THANKS FOR COMING IN,
MRS B____. NO
QUESTIONS.
MR. MC DONALD: EXCUSE ME A MINUTE,
RANDY WOULD
LIKE TO ASK YOU A QUESTION.
EXAMINATION
BY THE DEFENDANT: Q. HI,
CAROL.
BEFORE I BEGAN WORKING WITH J.L. YOU HAD
ALREADY GOTTEN THE COMPUTER FROM I.B.M.? DO YOU RECALL?
S. WINGERD, CSR 6467
A. YES.
Q. AND THERE WAS ANOTHER CONSULTANT WHO WORKED
BEFORE I WORKED WITH J.L.
A. YES.
Q. WHEN I.B.M. SOLD THE COMPUTER TO J.L.
PRODUCTS, DID THEY TRY TO GIVE SOME HELP TO THE MANAGEMENT
TO DECIDE WHO SHOULD OPERATE THE NEW COMPUTER?
A. YES.
Q. WHAT DID THEY DO WITH THAT RESPECT?
A. WE HAD TO TAKE TESTS.
Q. AS TO YOUR APTITUDE?
A. YES.
Q. IT WAS--
A. THEY WEREN’T GOING TO GIVE ME THE TEST
BECAUSE OF MY AGE.
Q. THERE WAS YOURSELF, THEN THERE WERE YOUNGER
PEOPLE WHO WERE THE CLERKS. YOU WERE THE HEAD BOOKKEEPER,
IS THAT RIGHT?
A. YES.
Q. BUT YOU DID ULTIMATELY TAKE THE TEST?
A. YES, AND I PASSED.
Q. YOU GOT THE HIGHEST SCORE?
A. THAT’S RIGHT.
Q. BUT STILL THE MANAGEMENT OF J.L. THOUGHT
PERHAPS SOME OF THE PROBLEMS THEY WERE HAVING WITH THE
COMPUTER WAS BECAUSE YOU WERE MORE OR LESS IN CAHRGE, IS
S. WINGERD, CSR 6467
THAT TRUE?
A. YES.
Q. AND THAT WAS BECAUSE OF YOUR AGE?
A. YES.
Q. WHEN I STARTED WITH J.L., DID WE
SORT OF BEGIN TO TURN THAT AROUND?
A. YES, WE DID. YES, WE DID. IT WAS STRICTLY
THROUGH WORKING WITH YOU THAT J.L. FINALLY ACCEPTED ME
AS-- TO WORK IN THE COMPUTER. OTHERWISE I WOULD HAVE
BEEN RELEGATED TO THE BACK ROOM, I GUESS. BECAUSE--
BECAUSE OF MY AGE, YES. AND THE ONLY THING THAT I GOT ANY
CONSIDERATION FOR WAS THE FACT THAT EVEN OVER COLLEGE
STUDENTS OR MEN WHO HAD GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE, I STILL
SCORED THE HIGHEST.
Q. THANK YOU.
MR. MC DONALD: THANKS, CAROL.
THE COURT: MR. BROWN, ANYTHING?
MR. BROWN: NO. THANK YOU FOR COMING IN.
THE COURT: THANK YOU, YOU ARE EXCUSED. THANK YOU,
MA’AM.
MR. MC DONALD: NEXT WITNESS WOULD
BE RUSSELL
C____.
THE CLERK: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT
HAND.
S. WINGERD, CSR 6467
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